So, where are the reasonable people? Thanks for your help Numo! i think He has some Jesus in him, it just gets mixed up with other stuff. Do you know his history and what he represents? stephen is suffering for doing right. Unless he completely revamps his life and his teachings, hes going to leave damaged lives in his wake. With BHouston, JLindell and MD there is no hope. For the Christmas services, additional services were added to further provide for social distancing. Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community I would lay 50 to 1 odds that a change in MD will be announced and proved to be a change in words not a change in behavior! I didnt feel pressured. It is possible for somebody who has a cutting tongue and a big mouth to stop. So true. I never thought of that but that certainly might be the case. How about the demon trials? Then the authentic community unravels like a cheap Walmart sweater. @ sam: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-07/royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse-investigates-hillsong/5795308 Hospitable, Self-controlled, Holy, Disciplined, above reproach, Not quarrelsome, not violent but gentle. . If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, it might be that his words and patterns of behavior, actions dont match. All the celebrity has to do is play the victim/repented card. Actually, they have as much as said that there is a good root (their doctrines/practices that accidentally produced some bad fruit. Who has harmed you? their ministry grew and even people that werent christians were thankful for them. I think those that experience an event that is very bad or painful are often the lucky ones because you really cant second guess leaving. Now I am working on something for Monday. I used to buy into this,thinking it is such wisdom to see ourselves in the examples of scripture, until I realized that we never seem to see ourselves as the villain. Driscoll, IMHO, is completely unsuited for any position of authority. Good luck to you Sam. I see him as a conference speaker on a different circuit. But. re: Lindells article. ), Warren Throckmorton quickly put up a post on this development and featured the following video. I see him as a conference speaker on a different circuit. The teachings of Christ are based on love and forgiveness, and I will not write off Mark as a person simply because of the things that people have said about him, a small minority of people signing a petition or statements he has made many years ago for which he has since repeatedly apologised, Houston said. https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/. 33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, @ sam: Under the circumstances, Mark Driscoll needs a time out, huh? Before people know it, feeling loved and valued (and not realizing it was due to preplanned manipulation). Some great insights there, Bob. it isnt anguish if i dont care and i am just a head of some church deciding that someone cant seperate or divorce or annul because i dont have time to look into it right now and i will get back to them with my judgment when i think its appropriate. Couldn't agree more! #driscollreturns paul most influential christian wrote most books this explains marks love of also writing books, Theyre having new revelations from heaven haha i mean from the internet blogs that they cant escape. he (stephen) probably had a ministry, forgiving means you transfer judgment to Jesus, thats what he does, (stephen transfers it to jesus to judge paul), words fail me, but a wrote a bunch which should be up soon lol, i tweeted: 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight. jamesriver.org [email protected] (417) 581-5433; At James River Assembly we're focused.Upward in Worship, Inward in Commitment and Outward in Evangelism. In my opinion Gateway is a cult not a church so they lose their Winters Bone protection status. 15 But the Lord said to Ananias, Go! pure grace are you or have been in similar situation to stephen? So quick question if anyone wants to take a whack at it. I dont see him pastoring a church and I am not even sure his legal problems from the last one are over. pure grace are you or have been in similar situation to stephen? They wear what they believe are trendy shirts typically untucked to cover the middle aged spread with skinny jeans. The worst of all the bad these churches can do (apart from sexual assaults) is brainwashing the kids into their cult beliefs so that they will not accept the true Word of God at a later date. If others havent heard this song yet, give it a try and see what you think. Of course, the major players seem to emulate and incorporate some of the more questionable practices of each other so in a way we are ending up with a somewhat homogenous giga experience like GW having one of those Guest Central kiosks you mentioned. . @ Gus: Pastor daddy Mike Baker is furious and says he's been mistreated-"slander," etc. "This ordinance reduces freedom of religion to freedom of worship," he said. Dont you want to be a part of that? The point of closed systems is to keep them closed. Join thousands of others to get the FREEDOM POST newsletter for free, sent twice a week from The Christian Post. believe these churches are using Driscoll as fallen pastor insurance. Humility? @ Bridget: And these leaders present themselves as one thing but are deceiving people the entire time. As some are aware, the result of me pleading for a fair trial and arguing for due deliberation when changing bylaws was that Mark Driscoll, in an abusive and vile manner, threatened to destroy me and my ministry. I am not the judge of the hearts of men, but God has given us clues to the genuine presence of the Spirit, and I did not see it. There is an old belief in bapto-evangelico circles that one of the criticisms that could for sure be said against certain other christian religious traditions is that they have priests and we do not, because they let the priests tell them what to do and influence them too much but in our way of doing things that does not happen. Are they involved in a joint venture? i hope people will go back and read the whole thing if they havent yet. I am still finding it hard to believe that Mr. Houston doesnt have access to Google, or some other search engine, in Australia. My old church Gateway has atmosphere teams in services to emotionally manipulate members and visitors. Galatians 5:22-23. Im really glad that you are reaching out to GW and other exiles. ++++++++++++++++. Finding out who and what Robert Morris really is inherently taints many others on the religious and political right, thereby making me question all my prior values and decisions. It was like my eyes were open. i have met people that have told me that they went to gateway (and other churches that are similar) but no longer do without ever saying why. Pouring? Your mistake is in assuming that Driscoll was there to deliver a sermon. Seems like the truth being covered, twisted, remade, ignored is what keeps these people in power and LTs post brings the truth as it actually is back to the forefront. He wants to release you from that burden and bondage, they haven't asked for forgiveness? Its easy to be friendly, humble, attentive, polite, , to your peers and to your superiors. Youre not one of us. Now the shock will be realizing how far theyve strayed from those virtues. Youre not trying hard enough! It is all choreographed and it works! I also find him vulgar and misogynistic, so I dont see him as ever having been qualified to start with. In a statement to the Ozarks Independent, James River Church said it has taken temperatures at the door, sanitized its children's areas and common areas multiple times per day, provided masks. Not here to argue about this, just pointing it out. i was thinking about how i probably sound critical to some people when i post on here about how i dont think people are apologizing right. While a decreasing quota meant less pay. That would be terrible. I dont think he is qualified to lead any church or ministry of any size until he exhibits the fruit of the Spirit for a long, long time. It seems foolish from a marketing and business view to alienate over half your customers.. A group of followers dealing directly with each other and not with an institution sounds appealing. In 2002, Agathos began as a ministry to rescue orphans in Africa during the peak of the out-of-control HIV/AIDS crisis. To tell, perhaps? He threatened to make sure that I could never be in ministry again. Robert Morris loves putting his flock under the law regarding Mosaic Law tithing and also under Deuteronomy so he can squeeze out extravagant gifts. Maybe Driscoll feels a notch above Paul since hes not called for any ones death? Come on Lindell, Morris, Kellogg and Johnston. Ill talk to you more tomorrow, so dont forget to check back! Where David cut the fabric from Sauls garment in the cave, showing he could have killed Saul but didnt, reflects Gods desire that David not physically harm Saul. Im trying to get people to understand it because theres a whole lot of stuff thats out there thats being said, much of it is just just simply not even close to truth. I find it telling that it contains 41 mentions of "sin," "sinners" and "sinfulness.". I recently had coffee with a staunch Mark Driscoll supporter who has chided any criticism of Mark Driscoll and strongly challenged me for every apparent infraction of the last year, yet at the same time vigorously excused or defended every one of Driscolls mistakes. The supporter said some awful things about me and Agathos, particularly its misuse of funds. stephen doesnt blameshift, doesnt lose his temper, stays calm. In the wake of this and other scandals, the Mars Hill Church collapsed. My Comment was Deleted In a statement Monday, the Christian County Health Department said they also received numerous complaints from the community about the services and urged those who attended to monitor themselves for COVID-19 symptoms over the next 14 days. I try to make sure my examples reflect current GW practice which is repellent to follow but important that people understand the stuff that I am posting is happening in real time. And of course JLindell can know that MD has NOT repented and sought reconciliation with those he threatened with breaking their nose, and then expelled and shunned. *MD and Mark Demoss calculated an irresistible snow job, tailored just for pentecostalworld (who are generally open to things without empirical proof). They want him to go away and they want to pretend he never existed for the sake of saving those church plants. Church Discipline I take it to mean: Don't feel so bad, there are whole lot of other people hell-bound, too. rather than come in glory he came in humility. Prayer Requests Title Mark Driscoll has a lot of repenting to do and until he does that he should not be permitted to preach/speak at any church. saul walks onto the stage of history. I could not exactly put my finger on what was wrong. sam wrote: I was shocked and deeply saddened to see photos from the James River event over the weekend. Brad Pitt cancelled his wedding there due to the churchs anti-gay preaching. This is off topic but your question has been the basis of discussion with many associates for the last 6 months, many recently leaving an authoritarian church. Che was tots adorbs. (This was all before the sex sermons and book.) The reason for this is that he wept, his remorse was written on his face for months and he still is remorseful, he didnt once make any excuse for his behavior, he accepted responsiblility and reached out to the family of the victim. All you have to do is say some magic words and we end up being the mean ones if dare say we otherwise. (Not that I waiting with bated breath). Did Paul plagiarize? Internet users are also shielded from much of GW reality. You would think that over a decade of Manly Man, sexist, dude-bro, preachers that people have had enough, the novelty has worn off, and theyre ready to get real about Church and the faith again? All rights reserved. One of the men had been to a conference in Seattle and was just wowed by his missional approach. I cannot respect or support these men knowing that they revere such a man as a pastor. No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. Its appalling that through your words and actions you are able to re-injure the real victims with such ease all while smiling and chuckling on your stage. The only two ways that I can think of for having said benchmarks, assuming by leadership you mean pastor(s) and not just chairman of some committee, is either having a system with central authority with established criteria which must be met prior to ordination and some written policies which are grounds for dismissal in certain conditions, That would be a denominational hierarchical system with designated people with authority and with something in writing, like an official book of how we do it. Or else to have a savvy and informed and mature congregation who would agree with and co-operate with each other on what was necessary and what needed done and which would have the actual power (backing of the people) to get it done. In case this was not a rhetorical question, the correct answer is entertainment. He essentially called the Driscoll victims liars and persecutors. He diverts attention from the real purpose, the Gospel, to himself. The disciples send him off to Tarsus and after that-there was peace for a time in the churches in Judea, Galilee and Samaria.:o).